Discussion:
EVA 01 takes on a BOLO Mk. XXXIII
(too old to reply)
Chuck Stewart
2004-01-30 02:37:11 UTC
Permalink
What would happen if there was a battle between an Eva and a Mk.33 Bolo?
Well, since this is the sort of fanboyish question Anno was railing
against, the actual battle would be fucked-up beyond belief. And the
resolution would result in everybody dying anyhow.

If you wanted a more serious answer: It'd depend on whether the Eva
had the attributes ascribed to it in the series or just those
attributes actually demonsrated in the series. If the former then
the Eva wins by a handwave. If the latter then the Bolo wins as soon
as it clears the horizon... if not sooner...
--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?"
Rob Kelk
2004-01-30 02:49:48 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:13:22 +0000, Deimos Anomaly
What would happen if there was a battle between an Eva and a Mk.33 Bolo?
A Mk.XXXIII is pretty darned tough - it may even be tough enough to
stand up to an AT Field. I wouldn't want to call this one, although I'd
love to have the pay-per-view rights to the fight...
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> robkelk -at- jksrv -dot- com
"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of
childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis, 1947
Galen Musbach
2004-01-30 03:33:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Kelk
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:13:22 +0000, Deimos Anomaly
What would happen if there was a battle between an Eva and a Mk.33 Bolo?
A Mk.XXXIII is pretty darned tough - it may even be tough enough to
stand up to an AT Field. I wouldn't want to call this one, although I'd
love to have the pay-per-view rights to the fight...
?
An EVA has no long range weapons and is dependent
upon an external power supply? The Bolo destroys the
target's support systems, and then waits for it to die.

-Galen
Dot Warner
2004-01-30 13:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Galen Musbach
?
An EVA has no long range weapons and is dependent
upon an external power supply? The Bolo destroys the
target's support systems, and then waits for it to die.
Yeah, but EVAs (or at least Unit 01, anyway) have that infamous Twink
Factor that makes them do things that are supposed to be impossible
(or at least highly improbable).

It would be a long, arduous fight, probably leveling most of Tokyo-3
in the process, intersperced with equally long interior monologues,
meanless flashback, and more angst than you can shake two Ethan fists
at. :)

-"Dot"
Rob Kelk
2004-01-30 14:22:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dot Warner
Post by Galen Musbach
?
An EVA has no long range weapons and is dependent
upon an external power supply? The Bolo destroys the
target's support systems, and then waits for it to die.
Yeah, but EVAs (or at least Unit 01, anyway) have that infamous Twink
Factor that makes them do things that are supposed to be impossible
(or at least highly improbable).
It would be a long, arduous fight, probably leveling most of Tokyo-3
in the process, intersperced with equally long interior monologues,
meanless flashback, and more angst than you can shake two Ethan fists
at. :)
And that's just from the Bolo... ^_^
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> robkelk -at- jksrv -dot- com
"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of
childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis, 1947
EBelcher
2004-01-30 18:46:52 UTC
Permalink
What is a BOLO Mk XXXIII?
The Wielder of the Scythe
2004-01-30 20:01:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by EBelcher
What is a BOLO Mk XXXIII?
Here and with pics. By the guy who wrote some of the Bolo follow-ups.
http://users.stargate.net/~whkeith/htm/bolo.htm
EBelcher
2004-01-30 22:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the link.
I Hate Spam
2004-01-31 03:27:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by EBelcher
What is a BOLO Mk XXXIII?
A half crazed martial arts henchman of the Evil Master from Kentucky
Fried Movie?!?
Ethan Hammond
2004-01-31 08:34:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by I Hate Spam
Post by EBelcher
What is a BOLO Mk XXXIII?
A half crazed martial arts henchman of the Evil Master from Kentucky
Fried Movie?!?
These are men who don't know where they are, but care!!!!

--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
5parrow
2004-01-30 15:43:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Galen Musbach
An EVA has no long range weapons and is dependent
upon an external power supply? The Bolo destroys the
target's support systems, and then waits for it to die.
Hey, that rhymes. *dash*

Anyway, it also depends on the Eva's armament... would the Bolo's armour
stop a Positron Rifle shot, and is the Lance any good against inorganic
targets?

If the latter, the Eva might be capable of launching a BVR attack.
Remember that it can hit targets in orbit with the Lance; all it needs
is a ballistic targeting system to compute the launch trajectory.
--
- 5parrowhawk
To email, please rearrange as appropriate.

() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ - against microsoft attachments
Galen Musbach
2004-01-30 16:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by 5parrow
Post by Galen Musbach
An EVA has no long range weapons and is dependent
upon an external power supply? The Bolo destroys the
target's support systems, and then waits for it to die.
Hey, that rhymes. *dash*
Anyway, it also depends on the Eva's armament... would the Bolo's armour
stop a Positron Rifle shot, and is the Lance any good against inorganic
targets?
If the latter, the Eva might be capable of launching a BVR attack.
Remember that it can hit targets in orbit with the Lance; all it needs
is a ballistic targeting system to compute the launch trajectory.
A Bolo Mk XXXIII doesn't need to come over the horizon
in order to obliterate Tokyo 3.

The Angels, you may recall, were trying to recover something;
the Bolo has not, AFAIK, been given any such constraints.

-Galen
Chuck Stewart
2004-01-30 23:20:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Galen Musbach
Post by 5parrow
Anyway, it also depends on the Eva's armament... would the Bolo's armour
stop a Positron Rifle shot, and is the Lance any good against inorganic
targets?
If the latter, the Eva might be capable of launching a BVR attack.
Remember that it can hit targets in orbit with the Lance; all it needs
is a ballistic targeting system to compute the launch trajectory.
The Bolo recomputes the ballistic and applies sufficient firepower
to deflect the spear... even if the spear can't be destroyed.
Post by Galen Musbach
A Bolo Mk XXXIII doesn't need to come over the horizon
in order to obliterate Tokyo 3.
True, but an independently-powered EVA's AT-field might protect it
from the megatons-upon-megatons-upon-megatons of a MK XXXIII's
artillery... thus requiring the Bolo to move in close enought to
bring its primaries to bear:

Hellbores vs. AT-Field: May the best special effects win! :)

The big P-rifle might help... might not. The shield Rei used was
distinctly thinner than a Bolo's frontal armor.
Post by Galen Musbach
The Angels, you may recall, were trying to recover something;
the Bolo has not, AFAIK, been given any such constraints.
True... so the Bolo's initial barrage annihilates Tokyo-3...
all of it...incidently freeing something...

Yep... The Bolo's gonna have plernty of angst after this...
Post by Galen Musbach
-Galen
--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?"
Dragonmaster Lou
2004-01-30 18:37:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Galen Musbach
Post by Rob Kelk
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:13:22 +0000, Deimos Anomaly
What would happen if there was a battle between an Eva and a Mk.33 Bolo?
A Mk.XXXIII is pretty darned tough - it may even be tough enough to
stand up to an AT Field. I wouldn't want to call this one, although I'd
love to have the pay-per-view rights to the fight...
?
An EVA has no long range weapons and is dependent
upon an external power supply? The Bolo destroys the
target's support systems, and then waits for it to die.
Depends on the Eva. Eva-01 and the mass-produced Evas had S2 organs
that were built-in and provided essentially limitless power.

You could also get that huge position cannon for the Eva as well,
although that relied on external power...
--
-------------------- http://www.techhouse.org/lou ----------------------
"Dragonmaster Lou" | "Searching for a distant star, heading off to
lou at techhouse org | Iscandar, leaving all we love behind, who knows
Tech House Alum | what dangers we'll find..."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
afedaken
2004-01-30 17:24:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Kelk
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:13:22 +0000, Deimos Anomaly
What would happen if there was a battle between an Eva and a Mk.33 Bolo?
A Mk.XXXIII is pretty darned tough - it may even be tough enough to
stand up to an AT Field. I wouldn't want to call this one, although I'd
love to have the pay-per-view rights to the fight...
Heh. EOE's Giant Rei-va not withstanding, isn't a Mk. XXXIII a
PLANETARY siege unit? Nerv's got some nasty toys, but short of the
thrid impact, there's nothing about an Eva that's anywhere near that
scale.
I Hate Spam
2004-01-31 03:32:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by afedaken
Post by Rob Kelk
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:13:22 +0000, Deimos Anomaly
What would happen if there was a battle between an Eva and a Mk.33 Bolo?
A Mk.XXXIII is pretty darned tough - it may even be tough enough to
stand up to an AT Field. I wouldn't want to call this one, although I'd
love to have the pay-per-view rights to the fight...
Heh. EOE's Giant Rei-va not withstanding, isn't a Mk. XXXIII a
PLANETARY siege unit? Nerv's got some nasty toys, but short of the
thrid impact, there's nothing about an Eva that's anywhere near that
scale.
Well there's an interesting question, is the Bolo sentient enough to
have a soul and thus an AT field
to be burst in Third Impact?

So what would Instrumentality be like with a Bolo in the LCL sea? Throw
in a few thousand Pokemon
and you've got one hell of a Primordial Soup!
Phillip Thorne
2004-02-02 23:05:33 UTC
Permalink
What would happen if there was a battle between an Eva and a Mk.33 Bolo?
Interesting. For the past few months I've been considering the
dynamics of a fight between a Bolo and an "Exaxxion"-type mech from
Kenichi Sonoda's _Cannon God Exaxxion_ manga -- given that they're
both planetary siege units. CGE is a great title for tech (it has
*numbers*!), if you can manage to overlook the pages featuring
Mega-Perv Tech-Gramps in the hot tub with his bevy of Adoring Android
Assistants[*].

I was considering it mostly as an exercise in "How to use a database
to structure a deathmatch better than WWWF Grudge Match does it."
WWWF-GM and similar sites can be found at:

http://www.grudge-match.com/Extras/links.html

"Bolos," being pure lit, and "Exaxxion," being of limited circulation,
are probably too obscure for any of the existing deathmatch-sites to
host.

[*] "Adoring Femdroid Assistants" would be more accurate, but loses
the alliteration. At least, I *assume* they're all androids. I
*hope* so, because otherwise Gramps has Austin Powers-class mojo.

/- Phillip Thorne ----------- The Non-Sequitur Express --------------------\
| org underbase ta thorne www.underbase.org It's the boundary |
| net comcast ta pethorne site, newsletter, blog conditions that |
\------------------------------------------------------- get you ----------/
John C. Watson
2004-02-03 03:39:08 UTC
Permalink
On 02/02/2004 18:05, in article ***@4ax.com,
"Phillip Thorne" <***@underbase.org> wrote:

[_Cannon God Exaxxion_]
is a great title for tech (it has *numbers*!), if you
can manage to overlook the pages featuring Mega-Perv Tech-Gramps in the hot
tub with his bevy of Adoring Android Assistants[*].
<snip>
[*] "Adoring Femdroid Assistants" would be more accurate, but loses
the alliteration. At least, I *assume* they're all androids. I
*hope* so, because otherwise Gramps has Austin Powers-class mojo.
Issues #18 and #19 of the Dark Horse edition have had profiles of the two of
the "Hosuke sisters". I haven't been keeping track, but page 17 of issue
#20 implies that there are eight Hosuke sisters, since that's the number of
faces in the illustrations--except that Isaka Minagata doesn't appear.
Seven of them are shown here here:

<http://web.archive.org/web/20020702020443/home.austin.rr.com/tsote/anime/so
noda/expics/androids.jpg>

(Reiko and Isaka are the missing two. Source:)

<http://web.archive.org/web/20030610134830/home.austin.rr.com/tsote/anime/so
noda/ex.html>

More general info:

<http://www.animefringe.com/magazine/02.06/feature/1/>

The "sisters" I've been able to identify:

Noriko Asagiri (center above; profile in issue #18)
Sierra Barrett (3rd from right above; profile in issue #19)
Reiko Kano (Hoichi's mother; [1])
Isaka Minagata [2]
Ryouko Tanegashima (rightmost; [3])

Two of them--Reiko and Sierra--have been identified as human, and yes, I
think that Grandfother Hosuke Kano does have "Austin Powers-class mojo".
Spoiler:

"Tenaqsngure" Ubfhxr vf erirnyrq va vffhr rvtugrra gb npghnyyl or Ubvpuv'f
sngure ol Ervxb--Ubwv'f fba naq Ubvpuv'f chgngvir sngure Ubwv jnfa'g "zna"
rabhtu sbe Ervxb.

(ROT13)

<http://www.degraeve.com/cgi-bin/rot13.cgi>

A number of my issues are in the mess that is the unorganized portion of my
collection--can anyone else identify any of the so-far-nameless Hosuke
sisters?

[1] Kneeling (her bangs bracket her eyes);
<http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=1
4407773352%2015>
[2] On the left <http://www.tfaw.com/profile_popup.html?item=11747>
[3] <http://www.tfaw.com/profile_popup.html?item=11859>

--
Ciao,
John

John C. Watson
World Otakunization Project, Amherst Division

<http://admin.engr.wisc.edu/IT/netiq.cfm>
Chris Mattern
2004-02-03 16:47:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Thorne
[*] "Adoring Femdroid Assistants" would be more accurate, but loses
the alliteration. At least, I *assume* they're all androids. I
*hope* so, because otherwise Gramps has Austin Powers-class mojo.
The proper term for a female android would be "gynoid".

Chris Mattern
Phillip Thorne
2004-02-05 04:13:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Mattern
[*] "Adoring Femdroid Assistants" would be more accurate, [...]
The proper term for a female android would be "gynoid".
Oh sure, "gynoid" is the correct term, if one insists on using the
Greek roots and the structure "X-oid." But how often does one see the
root "gyn(os)-" used, period, aside from "gynecology" and its
derivatives? "Android" has basically come to mean "artificial
creature in the shape of a human," regardless of its apparent sex;
usages like "fembot" emphasize a particular android's specific and
*exagerrated* female traits (eg, in the "Austin Powers" films).

How often are each of the following terms used? Let's ask Google,
which will (one hopes) provide a statistically valid sample:

Sorted by name Sorted by hits
-------------------- ---------------------
android 439,000 439,000 android
anthropoid 28,800 390,000 droid
deceptifemme 17 28,800 anthropoid
droid 390,000 10,300 fembot
fembot 10,300 3,320 gynoid
femdroid 34 453 femmebot
femoid 5 157 roboid
femmebot 453 34 femdroid
femmedroid 1 17 deceptifemme
gyndroid 17 17 gyndroid
gynoid 3,320 5 femoid
roboid 157 1 femmedroid

So, fem*bot* outranks gynoid, 3 to 1; but gynoid outranks fem*droid*,
100 to 1. We're both right: gynoid is an uncommon term, but femdroid
is even more uncommon.

"Droid" is probably a coinage original to George Lucas, and while
clearly a derivative of "android," most of them aren't human-shaped in
any way.

/- Phillip Thorne ----------- The Non-Sequitur Express --------------------\
| org underbase ta thorne www.underbase.org It's the boundary |
| net comcast ta pethorne site, newsletter, blog conditions that |
\------------------------------------------------------- get you ----------/
Phillip Thorne
2004-02-07 03:58:26 UTC
Permalink
What would happen if there was a battle between an Eva and a Mk.33 Bolo?
The scene: outside Tokyo-3, as the latest Angel approaches the city by
air. A 32,000-ton slab of duralloy armor squats outside the city on
six sets of treads, the landscape around it unmarked due to use of its
contragravity mobility generators. Over a hundred meters long, the
HCT-series Mark-33 Bolo stands ready to attack, its directing
psychotronic intelligence waiting only for a human order.

"Do what you like," says Misato Katsuragi dismissively. "Angels are
invulnerable to conventional weapons."

There follows the sound of a 200-cm slab of steel-jacketed slush
hydrogen being flash-compressed to fusion temperatures while being
fired skyward at 70% lightspeed, a sound for which the adjective
"thunderous" is totally inadequate. Then it happens again, and again,
as the Bolo's three turrets fire in rotating sequence.

Its AT field is an externalization of the Angel's own sense of
identity. Reeling under the assualt of five megatons-equivalent per
second, its sheer surprise causes that field to flicker. The moment's
inattention is enough to let the next flaming round penetrate,
transforming the Angel from "pattern blue" to "pattern splatter across
the landscape."

"Dammit, a Hellbore is *not* a conventional weapon!"

"Not in *your* century, perhaps," answers the Bolo impassively.

***
[...] It'd depend on whether the Eva
had the attributes ascribed to it in the series or just those
attributes actually demonsrated in the series. If the former then
the Eva wins by a handwave. If the latter then the Bolo wins as soon
as it clears the horizon... if not sooner...
Let's set Unit 02 against the Bolo, since it (and its pilot) have less
chance of changing their capabilities in mid-combat. "Why is it
always *me*?" grumbles Asuka, before she's persuaded of the
opportunity to demonstrate her prowess.

Stats for Humanoid Weapon Evangelion Unit 02 (2015 AD):

Height... Does anyone have a number for this? Measuring my Unit 02
action figure (180 mm toe to head), and assuming a 160-cm pilot to
scale would be (2,5) mm tall, that makes the Eva (144,58) m tall. The
latter measurement sounds more reasonable... we need better
photogrammetry.

Mobility... A simple scale argument (a 60-m humanoid has a stride 30x
the length of a human, 2002 world-record for 100-m sprint is 9.78
seconds), approx. 300 mps, or 1080 kph; sustained run probably less.

Weapons: Onboard: shaped AT field, progressive knife, spike-launchers,
hand-to-hand. External: a wide variety of progressive-bladed
close-combat weapons, projectile and missile launchers, and long-range
beam projectors.

Defenses: AT field, 4000 plates of fortified armor.

***

Stats for HCT-series Mark 33 Bolo planetary siege unit (c.3500 AD):
(As described in _Bolo Rising_ 1999, _Bolo Strike_ 2001, and on
William H. Keith's website)

Scale and mobility: 120 meters by 38 by 25 to upper deck, massing
32,000 metric tons. Six sets of tracks, or contragravity generators
(12 at 4000 tons each) for hover and planetfall. Road speed of 110
kph, CG-assisted sprint speed much higher.

Weapons: 3x turrets each mounting a 200-cm hellbore, delivering (each?
total?) 5 megatons per second; effective range 50,000 km. 14x (or 16,
or 20) 20-cm (or 30-cm) hellbores in side-mounted ball-turrets. 10x
40-cm ballistic-launch mortars, firing 10-kt nuclear shells. 4x
240-cm howitzers firing 500-kg HE shells. Vertical-launch missile
system. Antipersonnel flechette guns.

Defenses: shield projectors, 1-m duralloy; optional reactive armor
appliques.

***

What's the yield of an N2 mine? Whatever it is, a Hellbore would be
more effective, as a focused impact rather than uncontained explosion.

In matters of pure tactics (and often strategy), any Bolo (since at
least the Mark 29) can out-think any human. Often they're hobbled by
restrictive rules of engagement (limit the collateral damage, etc.) or
the need for human approval.

At close range, Unit 02 might be able to dodge the Bolo's shots. At
longer ranges, however, and given three turrets for bracketing shots,
the Bolo should be able to catch it. (Super-golem powers aside, I
rather doubt a 60-m humanoid sprinting at 300-mps can turn on a dime.)

Even if the Bolo can't penetrate Unit 02's AT field, it can easily
destroy the landscape around its opponent, reducing its mobility.
(They've often been shown capable of such lateral tactics.) In
close-quarters, the kinetic impact alone of its massed weapons (AT
fields don't negate momentum, do they?) should keep the Eva
staggering.

Prog-knife versus duralloy of the upper hull? Who knows?

Both combatants have shown the ability to absorb massive damage -- to
take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.

/- Phillip Thorne ----------- The Non-Sequitur Express --------------------\
| org underbase ta thorne www.underbase.org It's the boundary |
| net comcast ta pethorne site, newsletter, blog conditions that |
\------------------------------------------------------- get you ----------/
John C. Watson
2004-02-07 06:11:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip Thorne
Height... Does anyone have a number for this? Measuring my Unit 02
action figure (180 mm toe to head), and assuming a 160-cm pilot to
scale would be (2,5) mm tall, that makes the Eva (144,58) m tall. The
latter measurement sounds more reasonable... we need better
photogrammetry.
Here's a previous discussion on the size of the Evas:

<http://tinyurl.com/ytlq7>

--
Ciao,
John

John C. Watson
World Otakunization Project, Amherst Division

<http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/quote.html>

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