Battlestar Galactica vs. Gundam: quote in NY Times

[l***@my-deja.com]

There was an article about the new Sci-Fi Channel version of
"Battlestar Galactica" in the Sunday New York Times Magazine of July
17, 2005, with the emphasis on the contributions of producer Ronald D.
Moore (a "Star Trek" veteran). Here's a quote:

[Start Quote] After numerous meetings and a full script treatment,
[Moore] wrote a two-page memo that laid out the basic tenets of what
the new "Battlestar Galactica" would eventually become. "We take as a
given the idea that the traditional space opera, with its stock
characters, techno-double-talk, bumpy-headed aliens, thespian
histrionics and empty heroics has run its course, and a new approach is
required," it began. "Call it 'naturalistic science fiction.'" There
would be no time travel or parallel universes or cute robot dogs. There
would not be "photon torpedoes" but instead nuclear missiles, because
nukes are real and thus are frightening. [End Quote]

Okay, folks, is it just me or does his "new approach" sound exactly
like what they've been doing in anime space opera all these years?
I'm thinking, of course, of "Mobile Suit Gundam" and its various
spin-offs, not to mention "Space Battleship Yamato" and "Macross" and
any of a dozen other prominent anime space shows/OAVs.

I haven't seen any eps. of the new "Galactica" yet, so I can't
compare it to anime. But it irks me when the great work Japanese
animators have been doing in this genre for over 30 years continues to
be ignored by those who worship at the decaying shrines of "Star Trek,"
"Star Wars," and "Galactica."

[Invid Fan]

Post by l***@my-deja.com
Okay, folks, is it just me or does his "new approach" sound exactly
like what they've been doing in anime space opera all these years?
I'm thinking, of course, of "Mobile Suit Gundam" and its various
spin-offs, not to mention "Space Battleship Yamato" and "Macross" and
any of a dozen other prominent anime space shows/OAVs.

No more then Babylon 5. And no, "they're copying anime" never came to
mind watching the new Galactica. Actually my first thought was,
"they're going out of their way to be depressing and anti-Trek".

[Travers Naran]

Post by l***@my-deja.com
There was an article about the new Sci-Fi Channel version of
"Battlestar Galactica" in the Sunday New York Times Magazine of July
17, 2005, with the emphasis on the contributions of producer Ronald D.
[Start Quote] After numerous meetings and a full script treatment,
[Moore] wrote a two-page memo that laid out the basic tenets of what
the new "Battlestar Galactica" would eventually become. "We take as a
given the idea that the traditional space opera, with its stock
characters, techno-double-talk, bumpy-headed aliens, thespian
histrionics and empty heroics has run its course, and a new approach is
required," it began. "Call it 'naturalistic science fiction.'" There
would be no time travel or parallel universes or cute robot dogs. There
would not be "photon torpedoes" but instead nuclear missiles, because
nukes are real and thus are frightening. [End Quote]

It's called writing SF for TV the way it's been written in print for the
last 50 years.

Post by l***@my-deja.com
I haven't seen any eps. of the new "Galactica" yet, so I can't
compare it to anime. But it irks me when the great work Japanese
animators have been doing in this genre for over 30 years continues to
be ignored by those who worship at the decaying shrines of "Star Trek,"
"Star Wars," and "Galactica."

There's no anime connection at all.

[l***@my-deja.com]

Post by Travers Naran
There's no anime connection at all.

My point wasn't that of any connection between these shows and anime.
My point is that anime space shows do exactly the kind of thing the
Galactica producer describes as a "new approach." 25 years ago, Gundam
was ALREADY doing what Galactica's producer is announcing as "new." I
just want to see the anime shows get some respect for this.

Personally, I'd rather watch "Gundam," "Macross," "Yamato,"
"Gunbuster," "Crusher Joe" and any number of other anime space operas
than their American counterparts (at least those made since the
original Galactica and the very first Star Trek series). The anime
shows are more interesting to me visually and dramatically and they
tend to have more action. I like the characters and the "acting" so
much more. The American live-action shows tend to have B-level-type TV
actors like Kevin Sorbo and Bruce Boxleitner and Scott Bakula and I
just find them so uninteresting. Granted, I should give the new
Galactica a chance. After all, Edward James Olmos is no slouch.

[Captain Nerd]

Post by l***@my-deja.com

Post by Travers Naran
There's no anime connection at all.

My point wasn't that of any connection between these shows and anime.
My point is that anime space shows do exactly the kind of thing the
Galactica producer describes as a "new approach." 25 years ago, Gundam
was ALREADY doing what Galactica's producer is announcing as "new." I
just want to see the anime shows get some respect for this.
Personally, I'd rather watch "Gundam," "Macross," "Yamato,"
"Gunbuster," "Crusher Joe" and any number of other anime space operas
than their American counterparts (at least those made since the
original Galactica and the very first Star Trek series). The anime
shows are more interesting to me visually and dramatically and they
tend to have more action. I like the characters and the "acting" so
much more. The American live-action shows tend to have B-level-type TV
actors like Kevin Sorbo and Bruce Boxleitner and Scott Bakula and I
just find them so uninteresting. Granted, I should give the new
Galactica a chance. After all, Edward James Olmos is no slouch.

Rent the DVD set of "Firefly." You won't be disappointed.

Unless you don't like shows like 'Cowboy Bebop' or 'Outlaw
Star."

Cap.

[r***@usask.ca]

Post by Captain Nerd

Post by l***@my-deja.com
Personally, I'd rather watch "Gundam," "Macross," "Yamato,"
"Gunbuster," "Crusher Joe" and any number of other anime space operas
than their American counterparts (at least those made since the
original Galactica and the very first Star Trek series). The anime
shows are more interesting to me visually and dramatically and they
tend to have more action. I like the characters and the "acting" so
much more. The American live-action shows tend to have B-level-type TV
actors like Kevin Sorbo and Bruce Boxleitner and Scott Bakula and I
just find them so uninteresting. Granted, I should give the new
Galactica a chance. After all, Edward James Olmos is no slouch.

Rent the DVD set of "Firefly." You won't be disappointed.
Unless you don't like shows like 'Cowboy Bebop' or 'Outlaw
Star."

Um, I like Cowboy Bebop a lot, and Outlaw Star was fun. I can't stand
more than a few minutes of Firefly. Can't stand more than a few minutes
of Andromeda or new Trek either, though I would put Firefly above the
latter two. With the little of New Galactica I've seen, I'd actually
put it above all of those, now that I'm thinking about it.

ru

[Captain Nerd]

Post by r***@usask.ca

Post by Captain Nerd

Post by l***@my-deja.com
Personally, I'd rather watch "Gundam," "Macross," "Yamato,"
"Gunbuster," "Crusher Joe" and any number of other anime space operas
than their American counterparts (at least those made since the
original Galactica and the very first Star Trek series). The anime
shows are more interesting to me visually and dramatically and they
tend to have more action. I like the characters and the "acting" so
much more. The American live-action shows tend to have B-level-type TV
actors like Kevin Sorbo and Bruce Boxleitner and Scott Bakula and I
just find them so uninteresting. Granted, I should give the new
Galactica a chance. After all, Edward James Olmos is no slouch.

Rent the DVD set of "Firefly." You won't be disappointed.
Unless you don't like shows like 'Cowboy Bebop' or 'Outlaw
Star."

Um, I like Cowboy Bebop a lot, and Outlaw Star was fun. I can't stand
more than a few minutes of Firefly. Can't stand more than a few minutes
of Andromeda or new Trek either, though I would put Firefly above the
latter two. With the little of New Galactica I've seen, I'd actually
put it above all of those, now that I'm thinking about it.

So, what was it you saw in those few minutes of "Firefly" that
prevented you from watching further? What aspects of "Cowboy
Bebop" and "Outlaw Star" did you not see in "Firefly?" I'm just
curious, because early on one of the complaints that some people
had about "Firefly" was that it was *too much* like "Bebop" and
"Outlaw Star," that it was just a remake or retread of already
covered story ground.

Personally, "Firefly" is one of those shows I can't take my
eyes off until it's done, because I like the characters and
how they interact, as well as what happens to them, which is
what I also like about "Bebop" and some other shows. There are
some aspects of characters in the new "Galactica" that are okay,
but for some reason, of the episodes I watched, all you get to
see of them is their bad side which gets old after a while.
"Enterprise" never grabbed me, and I *wanted* it to. Of the
"Trek" series, "DS9" was the one that I enjoyed most, followed
by the original series.

You should at least watch the entire pilot of "Firefly" start
to finish. Except for Sorbo's shows, I've watched the full
pilot episodes of most shows, and often the first couple of
regular episodes before I reject or accept a show. YMMV, of
course.

Cap.

[Jack Bohn]

Post by Captain Nerd
What aspects of "Cowboy
Bebop" and "Outlaw Star" did you not see in "Firefly?" I'm just
curious, because early on one of the complaints that some people
had about "Firefly" was that it was *too much* like "Bebop" and
"Outlaw Star," that it was just a remake or retread of already
covered story ground.

That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

[l***@my-deja.com]

I want to thank everyone--and I do mean EVERYONE--for their thoughtful
responses. I learned a few things. I intend to check out the new
Galactica and, if I get the chance, "Firefly."

Yes, the bit about "decaying shrines" was a cheap shot and I apologize
for it. Sometimes I get so overzealous in my defense, or promoting, of
anime that I lose perspective. Sometimes this world gets a little too
insular.

[The Eternal Lost Lurker]

Post by l***@my-deja.com
I want to thank everyone--and I do mean EVERYONE--for their thoughtful
responses. I learned a few things. I intend to check out the new
Galactica and, if I get the chance, "Firefly."

At the VERY least check out Galactica. Firefly is running on Sci-Fi on
Fridays at 6 and 7 now, but they aired the first two episodes last week, so
if you missed it...well...yeah.

Galactica is in its second season now, and is a LOT harder to follow if
you're behind, but if you delve into the seamier side of P2P-land, you can
find the original miniseries and entire first season. (The original
miniseries IS on DVD, though, so try to do that first...)

Post by l***@my-deja.com
Yes, the bit about "decaying shrines" was a cheap shot and I apologize
for it. Sometimes I get so overzealous in my defense, or promoting, of
anime that I lose perspective.

It's happened to everyone on this newsgroup at some point or another, don't
worry about it. :)

[Justin]

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker

Post by l***@my-deja.com
I want to thank everyone--and I do mean EVERYONE--for their thoughtful
responses. I learned a few things. I intend to check out the new
Galactica and, if I get the chance, "Firefly."

At the VERY least check out Galactica. Firefly is running on Sci-Fi on
Fridays at 6 and 7 now, but they aired the first two episodes last week, so
if you missed it...well...yeah.

The first season of BSG is also coming to DVD within weeks or months
depending on the channel you want to get it through, Best Buy (No
extras, UK opening theme) or elsewhere with extras ...

[Abraham Evangelista (afedaken)]

Post by Jack Bohn

Post by Captain Nerd
What aspects of "Cowboy
Bebop" and "Outlaw Star" did you not see in "Firefly?" I'm just
curious, because early on one of the complaints that some people
had about "Firefly" was that it was *too much* like "Bebop" and
"Outlaw Star," that it was just a remake or retread of already
covered story ground.

That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

Well ya see, we only get up in arms when the movie is worth caring
about. Trailers for stealth have made it look so horrifically bad
that noone can be bothered to care. :-)

(I mean, c'mon now... Lightning does not rewire electronics. It
doesn't reprogram firmware. It KILLS electronic equipment DEAD.)
--
Kuriforudo wa ookikute akai inu da.
http://www.limitofx.com/snaplog
Now with Comments!

[The Eternal Lost Lurker]

Post by Abraham Evangelista (afedaken)
(I mean, c'mon now... Lightning does not rewire electronics. It
doesn't reprogram firmware. It KILLS electronic equipment DEAD.)

But...but...but...what about Number 5? ;_;

NUMBER FIVE IS ALIVE! ;_;

[Neil Nadelman]

Post by Jack Bohn
That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

Because it's so obviously a rip-off of Macross Plus that
saying it rips off Yukikaze wouldn't make any sense.
-----------------------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman ***@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
-----------------------------------------------------
I have no fears in life,
for I have already survived Theta-G!

[Invid Fan]

Post by Neil Nadelman

Post by Jack Bohn
That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

Because it's so obviously a rip-off of Macross Plus that
saying it rips off Yukikaze wouldn't make any sense.

Not that Macross Plus was original, mind you :)

[Ethan Hammond]

Post by Neil Nadelman

Post by Jack Bohn
That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

Because it's so obviously a rip-off of Macross Plus that
saying it rips off Yukikaze wouldn't make any sense.

The term is homage Neil, HOMAGE!

[IsaacKuo]

Post by Jack Bohn

Post by Captain Nerd
What aspects of "Cowboy
Bebop" and "Outlaw Star" did you not see in "Firefly?" I'm just
curious, because early on one of the complaints that some people
had about "Firefly" was that it was *too much* like "Bebop" and
"Outlaw Star," that it was just a remake or retread of already
covered story ground.

That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

The basic premise has only been done before in
EVERY ROBOTIC WAR MACHINE STORY EVER WRITTEN. This
includes previous Hollywood movies and anime shows
of robotic fighter jets gone amuck.

Isaac Kuo

[Antonio E. Gonzalez]

Post by Jack Bohn

Post by Captain Nerd
What aspects of "Cowboy
Bebop" and "Outlaw Star" did you not see in "Firefly?" I'm just
curious, because early on one of the complaints that some people
had about "Firefly" was that it was *too much* like "Bebop" and
"Outlaw Star," that it was just a remake or retread of already
covered story ground.

That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

I see superficial similarities, but don't know enough about either
to make a sure comparison . . .



- Vaughner

- "Let's beat the terrorists with our most powerful weapon . . . hot
girl-on-girl action!"

[Rob Kelk]

Post by Jack Bohn

Post by Captain Nerd
What aspects of "Cowboy
Bebop" and "Outlaw Star" did you not see in "Firefly?" I'm just
curious, because early on one of the complaints that some people
had about "Firefly" was that it was *too much* like "Bebop" and
"Outlaw Star," that it was just a remake or retread of already
covered story ground.

That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

No, we're just paying attention to what's actually in the ads for
"Stealth", and noticing that it's got more in common with "2001" than it
has with MAC+ ...

[Justin]

Post by Rob Kelk

Post by Jack Bohn

Post by Captain Nerd
What aspects of "Cowboy
Bebop" and "Outlaw Star" did you not see in "Firefly?" I'm just
curious, because early on one of the complaints that some people
had about "Firefly" was that it was *too much* like "Bebop" and
"Outlaw Star," that it was just a remake or retread of already
covered story ground.

That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

No, we're just paying attention to what's actually in the ads for
"Stealth", and noticing that it's got more in common with "2001" than it
has with MAC+ ...

Jessica Biel wore a swim suit in 2001 too? Or... do you just mean the
monkey scene from 2001?

[Rob Kelk]

Post by Justin

Post by Rob Kelk

Post by Jack Bohn

Post by Captain Nerd
What aspects of "Cowboy
Bebop" and "Outlaw Star" did you not see in "Firefly?" I'm just
curious, because early on one of the complaints that some people
had about "Firefly" was that it was *too much* like "Bebop" and
"Outlaw Star," that it was just a remake or retread of already
covered story ground.

That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

No, we're just paying attention to what's actually in the ads for
"Stealth", and noticing that it's got more in common with "2001" than it
has with MAC+ ...

Jessica Biel wore a swim suit in 2001 too? Or... do you just mean the
monkey scene from 2001?

I said "more in common with", not "a clone of"...

[Ethan Hammond]

Harry Potter is obviously a rip off of Bastard, but
you don't hear me complaining! With how long
Hagiwara takes to draw it will be years before
he realizes.

[Justin]

Post by Rob Kelk

Post by Justin

Post by Rob Kelk

Post by Jack Bohn

Post by Captain Nerd
What aspects of "Cowboy
Bebop" and "Outlaw Star" did you not see in "Firefly?" I'm just
curious, because early on one of the complaints that some people
had about "Firefly" was that it was *too much* like "Bebop" and
"Outlaw Star," that it was just a remake or retread of already
covered story ground.

That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

No, we're just paying attention to what's actually in the ads for
"Stealth", and noticing that it's got more in common with "2001" than it
has with MAC+ ...

Jessica Biel wore a swim suit in 2001 too? Or... do you just mean the
monkey scene from 2001?

I said "more in common with", not "a clone of"...

I was making more of a comment on the intellectual content of Stealth...

[Phillip Thorne]

Post by Jack Bohn
That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

Personally, I immediately classified it as "Short Circuit meets
Macross Plus". (Lightning strike turns robot weapon sentient; robot
weapon is a plane; robo-plane is chased by pilots who fear it will
make them obsolete.) I've read about, but never seen, "Yukikaze".

My friends didn't. They classified it as, "Well, it'll give the
theatre's sound system a good workout."

FWIW, US military plans for UCAVs (unmanned combat air vehicles)
reserve the "kill" privilege to the remote operators.

/- Phillip Thorne ----------- The Non-Sequitur Express --------------------\
| org underbase ta thorne www.underbase.org It's the boundary |
| net comcast ta pethorne site, newsletter, blog conditions that |
\------------------------------------------------------- get you ----------/

[Dragonmaster Lou]

Post by Jack Bohn
That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

What about Macross Plus? That was the first thing I thought of when I
first saw the trailers for STEALTH.

[Ethan Hammond]

Post by Dragonmaster Lou

Post by Jack Bohn
That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

What about Macross Plus? That was the first thing I thought of when I
first saw the trailers for STEALTH.

Luckily they are both unwatchable!

[Eric Schwartz]

Post by Ethan Hammond

Post by Dragonmaster Lou

Post by Jack Bohn
That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

What about Macross Plus? That was the first thing I thought of when I
first saw the trailers for STEALTH.

Luckily they are both unwatchable!

Okay, you have approximately 3.4827 milliseconds to take that back
before I launch the ICBMs! Macross Plus not only has a great plot,
and, like, omiGAWD the coolest anime soundtrack like EVAR, but it has
probably the most believable characters in any of the Macross
universe, and the scene towards the end when Isamu and Guld <spoiler>*
is probably one of the most touching ones of that type I've seen
anywhere.

Did I mention the kickass soundtrack? Reminds me of Aaron Copland's
bastard love child by way of Benjamin Britten (a friend suggested
Vaughn Williams, which I totally don't get, but okay). In particular
the tracks "Fly up in the air ~ Tension" and the acapella version of
"Voices" are some of the best music, nevermind soundtrack music, Yoko
Kanno has ever written.

* Note to yaoi fans: not that!

-=Eric

[Ethan Hammond]

Post by Eric Schwartz

Post by Ethan Hammond

Post by Dragonmaster Lou

Post by Jack Bohn
That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

What about Macross Plus? That was the first thing I thought of when I
first saw the trailers for STEALTH.

Luckily they are both unwatchable!

Okay, you have approximately 3.4827 milliseconds to take that back
before I launch the ICBMs! Macross Plus not only has a great plot,
and, like, omiGAWD the coolest anime soundtrack like EVAR, but it has
probably the most believable characters in any of the Macross
universe, and the scene towards the end when Isamu and Guld <spoiler>*
is probably one of the most touching ones of that type I've seen
anywhere.

I have only seen the dub on Stars/Encore!

[Sea Wasp]

Post by Ethan Hammond

Post by Dragonmaster Lou

Post by Jack Bohn
That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

What about Macross Plus? That was the first thing I thought of when I
first saw the trailers for STEALTH.

Luckily they are both unwatchable!

You are wrong, WRONG! *SHAKES ETHAN* Macross Plus (especially the
movie version) is AWE INSPIRING!

[Ethan Hammond]

Post by Ethan Hammond

Post by Dragonmaster Lou
What about Macross Plus? That was the first thing I thought of when I
first saw the trailers for STEALTH.

Luckily they are both unwatchable!

You are wrong, WRONG! *SHAKES ETHAN* Macross Plus (especially the movie
version) is AWE INSPIRING!

It did give me an awe inspiring nap!

[Gerardo Campos]

Post by Ethan Hammond

Post by Dragonmaster Lou

Post by Jack Bohn
That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

What about Macross Plus? That was the first thing I thought of when
I first saw the trailers for STEALTH.

Luckily they are both unwatchable!

Shame on you Ethan. IMHO Macross Plus has one of the best plots, music
and characters from all the genres, and is enjoyable even if you have
never watched any of the previuos Macross series.

[Ethan Hammond]

Post by Gerardo Campos

Post by Ethan Hammond
Luckily they are both unwatchable!

Shame on you Ethan. IMHO Macross Plus has one of the best plots, music
and characters from all the genres, and is enjoyable even if you have
never watched any of the previuos Macross series.

Doesn't it have a Megumi sex scene as well?

[Antonio E. Gonzalez]

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 18:28:56 +0000 (UTC), Dragonmaster Lou

Post by Dragonmaster Lou

Post by Jack Bohn
That reminds me. Ads for STEALTH have run for weeks now. Where
are the comparisons to YUKIKAZE? The claims of a ripoff?!? Is
this newsgroup getting lazy!?!

What about Macross Plus? That was the first thing I thought of when I
first saw the trailers for STEALTH.

Macross Plus? Yukikaze? Top Gun meets 2001? Nope, it's something
completely different!:

<http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20050803.html>

[The Eternal Lost Lurker]

Post by l***@my-deja.com
My point is that anime space shows do exactly the kind of thing the
Galactica producer describes as a "new approach." 25 years ago, Gundam
was ALREADY doing what Galactica's producer is announcing as "new." I
just want to see the anime shows get some respect for this.

There is no similarity whatsoever between Mobile Suit Gundam and Battlestar
Galactica.

And what you want plus a nickel will buy you a gumball out of a machine.

[r***@usask.ca]

Post by l***@my-deja.com
My point wasn't that of any connection between these shows and anime.
My point is that anime space shows do exactly the kind of thing the
Galactica producer describes as a "new approach." 25 years ago, Gundam
was ALREADY doing what Galactica's producer is announcing as "new." I
just want to see the anime shows get some respect for this.

I think the producer's comments really ought to be taken strictly
in the context of North American live-action fare. In that context,
the New Galactica's approach is at least different than the usual
pap we are fed for TV-SF. To be annoyed that anime is being ignored
would mean we would have to be annoyed that SF writers have been
doing these kinds of stories for decades before Gundam. One has
to face the fact that most viewers in North America simply have
zero awareness of anime, or more to the point, the kinds of shows
there are in anime. If the producers were to say, "We are going
to take the approach that SF anime writers started 20 years ago",
they'd still have to say this is a new approach for TV SF simply
because most viewers lack the anime context. NA TV is not
Japanese TV.

Regarding Gundam, if the orginal (and new) stuff was an attempt
at what the producer is calling "new approach", I'd have to say
they failed in the execution. I think the New Galactica at least
does a better job of taking this approach than Gundam did. At the
very least the social consequences are dealt with better, both
at the individual and group levels. It seemed to deal with the
military considerations a bit better, given the little I saw.
Generally, there was so much more I considered very awkward,
improbable or contrived in Gundam that I can't watch more than
a few minutes of any Gundam I've tried. I got a lot further
with New Galactica. Actually, I would argue that Gundam actually
is a poor example of anime preceding NA SF TV because the use of
human-form giant robots, how they maneuver, some of their weapons,
and how they fight are exactly the kind of things the producer
wanted removed from SF TV. I'm sorely lacking in the older
anime department, but for what I have seen, I'd say Gunbuster
would be a much better milestone to cite if it weren't for the
Buster Bomb concept. Super weapons and super attacks simply
don't make the cut. But note that a heavy price was shown to
be paid. GE 999 might be an even better example.

So what space opera might and might not fit this "new approach" in
anime (that I've seen)?

Fit
---
Crest of the Stars, etc
Cowboy Bebop
Galaxy Express 999
Gunbuster (marginally... the Buster Bomb may take it out)
Hello Kitty (kidding)
Iria (maybe... not much space related stuff)
Outlaw Star
Stellvia (maybe... haven't seen all of this and Infi could easily knock it out)
They Were Eleven
Voices of a Distant Star (because the robots were not a key device)
Yukikaze (maybe... I've only seen 2 eps)

Not Fit
-------
Angel Links (it does use a "big beam weapon" that keeps things too easy)
Black Heaven (the premise requires an intentionally idiotic super weapon)
Five Star Stories (maybe... dueling giant robots is the main problem)
Irresponsible Captain Tylor (because the premise IS the improbable being probable)
Kiddy Grade (too many super powers)
Macross etc (transforming machines and giant robots are too fanciful)
MAPS (super machines, super weapons)
MS Gundam etc
Sol Bianca etc (premise requires super machine and super weapons)
Vandread (premise requires some pretty fanciful stuff)

Not Sure (haven't seen but heard of)
--------
Votoms (I've seen a few eps, and it looked like it's IN)
Yamato (I suspect it's out because of the Wave Motion Gun)
A.W.O.L.
Gall Force (probably out... that initial space battle was pretty fanciful)
Harlock (probably out given how scary Arcadia is supposed to be)
Lost Universe
Nadesico

Note, I like most of these shows, and any negative comment does not
represent my opinion of the show itself.

In my assessment, I don't think there are as many examples in anime
that fits the New Galactica's producer's prescription, as the OP
suggests. If we knock out my borderline entries, there are only
a handful from the past, say, 20 years of anime. Sure, one could
argue anime did it before New Galactica, but neither is it commonplace
enough to argue that it's something everyone in anime recognizes.
That is, it's different enough from most TV and anime SF to catch
SF fans' interest (though probably not Old Galactica fans').

ru

[IsaacKuo]

Post by r***@usask.ca
So what space opera might and might not fit this "new approach" in
anime (that I've seen)?
Fit
---
Crest of the Stars, etc
Cowboy Bebop
Galaxy Express 999

Whoah there! I'm sorry, but the humanoid shaped Mobile
Suits in Gundam are at least plausibly workable. But
trains in space? Really.

Post by r***@usask.ca
Gunbuster (marginally... the Buster Bomb may take it out)

Umm...Gunbuster had humanoid giant robot fighting vehicles,
just like Gundam. At least Gundam never had guided lasers
beams!

Gunbuster was self conscious unabashed giant robot schlock,
as much spoof as homage.

Post by r***@usask.ca
Not Fit
-------
Macross etc (transforming machines and giant robots
are too fanciful)

Macross at least tried to explain why the humanoid fighting
vehicles were used, and it makes some sense. Basically,
all of the Zentradi equipment is designed for their giant
physiques. The humanoid VF-1 fighters could thus fight
them on their own terms (but, the VF-1's were designed
just BEFORE the Zentradi attack, so the timing is confused).
Anyway, the transforming capability is not so strange,
because it lets the VF-1 fighters travel at high speed
when necessary.

Post by r***@usask.ca
MS Gundam etc

Gundam makes a pretty weak stab at justifying the humanoid
layout of mobile suits. Basically, the technology was
originally developed for (human sized) robot prosthetics
and full body suits for the handicapped. The Zion rebels
adapted this technology to produce (giant sized) fighting
vehicles capable of both land and space combat. The Feds
then copied the Zions.

The giant size of Mobile Suits is perhaps justified by
the minimum size/weight requirements of fusion reactors.
The humanoid shape? This might make sense for the first
Zion mobile suits as an expedient to quickly adapt the
original technology. However, it's a bit strange to
stick with the humanoid shape for more than the first
generation or two.

Gundam also has a bit of "funny" technology in the
form of the "beam sabre" (i.e. big light saber).

Post by r***@usask.ca
Not Sure (haven't seen but heard of)
--------
Votoms (I've seen a few eps, and it looked like it's IN)

Votoms has humanoid robot fighting vehicles, of course.

Post by r***@usask.ca
Nadesico

Nadesico has humanoid robot fighting vehicles, AND they
primarily fight using melee moves. Definitely one of
the more bizarre mixes of "Gundam school" military style
giant robots with "classic giant robot" fighting style.

Anyway, the most notable example of realistic space
opera, which you missed, is Legend of the Galactic Heroes.
I haven't had a chance to see all of it yet, but even from
what I've seen I must agree with those who say that it's
far better in every way than that "other" space epic
(no cute elf girl in LoGH, though).

Isaac Kuo

[r***@usask.ca]

Post by IsaacKuo

Post by r***@usask.ca
So what space opera might and might not fit this "new approach" in
anime (that I've seen)?
Fit
---
Galaxy Express 999

Whoah there! I'm sorry, but the humanoid shaped Mobile
Suits in Gundam are at least plausibly workable. But
trains in space? Really.

Totally. There's no reason that any of the space-only ship
can't be in the shape of a train, apart from lugging the extra
weight. The train aspect of the GE 999 is pretty much aesthetic.
It's the lift-off part that's the problem, but if anyone is
willing to accept Gundam level technology, that isn't a problem
either.

Post by IsaacKuo

Post by r***@usask.ca
Not Sure (haven't seen but heard of)
--------

...

Post by IsaacKuo
Anyway, the most notable example of realistic space
opera, which you missed, is Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

I didn't miss it. I haven't seen it, and rarely hear of it,
so I'm not surprised it didn't make my lists.

Post by IsaacKuo
I haven't had a chance to see all of it yet, but even from
what I've seen I must agree with those who say that it's
far better in every way than that "other" space epic
(no cute elf girl in LoGH, though).

The latter probably puts it in even better standing for the IN list. :)

ru

[IsaacKuo]

Post by r***@usask.ca

Post by IsaacKuo

Post by r***@usask.ca
So what space opera might and might not fit this "new approach" in
anime (that I've seen)?
Fit
---
Galaxy Express 999

Whoah there! I'm sorry, but the humanoid shaped Mobile
Suits in Gundam are at least plausibly workable. But
trains in space? Really.

Totally. There's no reason that any of the space-only ship
can't be in the shape of a train, apart from lugging the extra
weight.

None of the trains in GE999 are space-only. They all
operate on land also, using traditional wheels and
traditional tracks--as well as in the air. It's
utterly ludicrous.

Post by r***@usask.ca
The train aspect of the GE 999 is pretty much aesthetic.
It's the lift-off part that's the problem, but if anyone is
willing to accept Gundam level technology, that isn't a problem
either.

With Gundam level technology, GE999 is totally out of the
question. In Gundam, there are no magic force fields to
hold air in so you can have trains with traditional windows
and open balconies. In Gundam, there isn't even any magic
artificial gravity on the space ships. In Gundam, spacecraft
look and feel unmistakably like spacecraft--they have
airlocks and people wear space suits and float in zero gee.

In GE999, the trains look and feel unmistakably like plain
old terrestrial trains. Even in the middle of outer space,
they suffer derailments just like on Earth (even though
there aren't any physical rails). On the rare occasion
that they venture into zero gee, Maetel's long hair and
long dress magically stay in place anyway.

Frankly, I can't believe we're having this debate. GE999
is an unabashed romantic fantasy. It has magical items
and fantastic creatures, and many "trippy" phantasmogoric
parts. In GE999, space is an infinite and mysterious
place, composed of innumerable dark and unknowable corners
which devour hapless travellers at any time. In Gundam,
space is just a place--just another environment which man
has tamed.

Post by r***@usask.ca

Post by IsaacKuo

Post by r***@usask.ca
Not Sure (haven't seen but heard of)
--------

Anyway, the most notable example of realistic space
opera, which you missed, is Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

I didn't miss it. I haven't seen it, and rarely hear of it,
so I'm not surprised it didn't make my lists.

Which means you missed it.

Isaac Kuo

[OTL]

Post by r***@usask.ca
Fit
---
Outlaw Star

I'd have to disqualify "Outlaw Star". The ships sprout arms and fight
hand-to-hand or with melee weapons! That's about as silly as the
humanoid-shaped robots in Gundam, et. al. (Not that I dislike said
silliness...)

Add in the prevalence of magic in the "Outlaw Star" universe (Gene has a gun
that *literally* fires Magic Bullets, and there are several magic-users shown
throughout the series) and I'd say OS doesn't quite fit that mold...

[Rob Kelk]

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:12:18 +0000 (UTC), ***@usask.ca wrote:

<snip>

Post by r***@usask.ca
So what space opera might and might not fit this "new approach" in
anime (that I've seen)?
Fit
---
Crest of the Stars, etc
Cowboy Bebop
Galaxy Express 999
Gunbuster (marginally... the Buster Bomb may take it out)
Hello Kitty (kidding)

That turns up on all your lists, yet I *still* don't have an Anime
Primer entry for it...

Post by r***@usask.ca
Iria (maybe... not much space related stuff)
Outlaw Star
Stellvia (maybe... haven't seen all of this and Infi could easily knock it out)
They Were Eleven
Voices of a Distant Star (because the robots were not a key device)
Yukikaze (maybe... I've only seen 2 eps)
Not Fit
-------
Angel Links (it does use a "big beam weapon" that keeps things too easy)

OTOH, they show that using the "big beam weapon" has consequences...
But, yes, this one doesn't fit. (Which is odd, considering it's set in
the same universe as "Outlaw Star".)

Post by r***@usask.ca
Black Heaven (the premise requires an intentionally idiotic super weapon)
Five Star Stories (maybe... dueling giant robots is the main problem)
Irresponsible Captain Tylor (because the premise IS the improbable being probable)
Kiddy Grade (too many super powers)
Macross etc (transforming machines and giant robots are too fanciful)
MAPS (super machines, super weapons)
MS Gundam etc
Sol Bianca etc (premise requires super machine and super weapons)
Vandread (premise requires some pretty fanciful stuff)
Not Sure (haven't seen but heard of)
--------
Votoms (I've seen a few eps, and it looked like it's IN)
Yamato (I suspect it's out because of the Wave Motion Gun)
A.W.O.L.
Gall Force (probably out... that initial space battle was pretty fanciful)

Definitely out - Gall Force is roughly equal parts "Star Trek", "Alien",
and "Silent Running" (but somehow manages to work!), none of which fit
the list.

Post by r***@usask.ca
Harlock (probably out given how scary Arcadia is supposed to be)
Lost Universe
Nadesico

I think "Nadesico" fits the list. The robots are governed by the laws
of physics, and are nearly incidental to the story anyway; the important
parts of the show are in how the characters relate to each other, and to
the war.

<snip>

[r***@usask.ca]

Post by Rob Kelk

Post by r***@usask.ca
Hello Kitty (kidding)

That turns up on all your lists, yet I *still* don't have an Anime
Primer entry for it...

*boggle*

OK, I see 5 problems with that:
1) it's a kids show so I think a kid should write the primer for it *grin*
2) I only mention it on my lists because it's the only thing my
unimaginative mind can think of that would be too unlikely to be
on the lists I use it on, not because I'm a fan. *smirk*
3) when I actually do sit down and watch it, I'm in such a fried
state of mind (that is, I NEED childlevel programming at that
point - I'm in a fetal position, sucking my thumb, clutching
a blanket in one hand, and the pile of work I just couldn't
manage to do in my 36th hour of the day in my other arm),
I can never be sure of what I recall later on. *whistling*
4) I haven't seen the Japanese version, though I do like what I've
seen of the North American version. *sweatdrop*

ru

P.S. Note the lack of #5. *Cheshire*

[The Eternal Lost Lurker]

Just a quick note:

Anyone who saw tonight's episode of Galactica, if not already convinced that
certain points made earlier in this thread were valid, should now have no
question of it.

Shit like that is so far above and beyond Gundam, Yamato, et. all it's not
even funny.

[Lord Craxton]

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
Anyone who saw tonight's episode of Galactica, if not already convinced that
certain points made earlier in this thread were valid, should now have no
question of it.
Shit like that is so far above and beyond Gundam, Yamato, et. all it's not
even funny.

We already knew Tye was a drunk and an ass, now you can add "imbecile" to
that list. First he starts yelling at people for no reason, then he tries to
solidify his power by disgracing the president, then when that doesn't work
he goes and declares martial law. Has declaring martial law EVER worked? I
didn't like him to begin with, and I'm liking him less and less as the
series goes on. And his wife is so obviously manipulating him that it's not
even funny- we need to seriously reconsider her as a Cylon agent. If Adama
doesn't wake up and set things straight soon, we're going to have a mutiny
on our hands.

By the way, are there some romantic sparks between Apollo and the president,
or is it just me?

-Lord Craxton

[Rob Kelk]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:15:19 -0400, "Lord Craxton"
<***@yahoo.com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Lord Craxton
We already knew Tye was a drunk and an ass, now you can add "imbecile" to
that list. First he starts yelling at people for no reason, then he tries to
solidify his power by disgracing the president, then when that doesn't work
he goes and declares martial law. Has declaring martial law EVER worked?

Canada, 1969 - declaring martial law succeeded in quashing the
terrorists trying to gain independance for Quebec.

<snip>

[Rob Kelk]

Post by Rob Kelk
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:15:19 -0400, "Lord Craxton"
<snip>

Post by Lord Craxton
We already knew Tye was a drunk and an ass, now you can add "imbecile" to
that list. First he starts yelling at people for no reason, then he tries to
solidify his power by disgracing the president, then when that doesn't work
he goes and declares martial law. Has declaring martial law EVER worked?

Canada, 1969 - declaring martial law succeeded in quashing the
terrorists trying to gain independance for Quebec.
<snip>

Oh, I can't believe I made that mistake - I lived through that event...

Canada, *_1970_* - declaring martial law succeeded in quashing the
terrorists trying to gain independance for Quebec.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLQ#October_crisis>


(Since we're way off-topic, followups set to poster. Mind the
spamblock.)

[Jack Bohn]

Post by l***@my-deja.com
My point wasn't that of any connection between these shows and anime.
My point is that anime space shows do exactly the kind of thing the
Galactica producer describes as a "new approach." 25 years ago, Gundam
was ALREADY doing what Galactica's producer is announcing as "new." I
just want to see the anime shows get some respect for this.

It struck me at work yesterday that what Gundam did is what
Marvel Comics did in the early '60s. Accepting the conventions
of the genre (the physics-defying power) they put real people
with real problems in their situations, people who did not always
handle the situations well.

The Galactica Manifesto seems to be trying to eliminate the
accepted conventions of TV SciFi, but to me it often seems to be
replacing them with chauvinism based on our culture (No one would
wear robes in a formal setting! It's suit and tie!) and time
(Space warps and robots, OK, but no other technology will really
advance past the late 20th century.)

[The Eternal Lost Lurker]

Post by Jack Bohn
The Galactica Manifesto seems to be trying to eliminate the
accepted conventions of TV SciFi, but to me it often seems to be
replacing them with chauvinism based on our culture (No one would
wear robes in a formal setting! It's suit and tie!) and time
(Space warps and robots, OK, but no other technology will really
advance past the late 20th century.)

Actually, everything about Galactica as presented makes sense, often in ways
the original didn't.

First, you mention the costumes. I prefer the modern Galactica's costumes to
the original. Especially the uniforms of the Galactica crew; in the old
series, the outfit Adama wore was nothing short of ridiculous, and there was
no real standard of 'uniform' to speak of, but on the new Galactica, it is
very clear that "this is a MILITARY VESSEL", as everyone wears a severely
military uniform with little to no deviation, and the uniforms are crisp and
Spartan; perfectly befitting the daily work uniform for a ship of war.

As to the clothing of everyone else...

I'm of the opinion that in "teh FYUCHURE!", clothing will not be radically
different from what we wear now. If you think about it, the types of
clothing we wear now are not radically dissimilar from what was worn a
hundred years ago--style issues notwithstanding, the basic equations still
hold--and I really don't see much room for improvement in terms of overall
design, comfort, and function in regards to clothing. Style issues
notwithstanding, a pair of jeans is a pair of jeans, a suit and tie is a
suit and tie, and a Hawaiian shirt and Bermuda shorts is tacky no matter how
hard you try to sell it. Now, construction and materials? Yeah, I see room
for improvement there, but really, there's no need for clothing to "evolve"
further than current 21st century standards. We're about as well dressed as
a sentient race is going to get.

As far as other technology is concerned...

The reasons for the apparent "low-tech" environment aboard Galactica are
rather well-documented in the pilot miniseries, and touched upon again in
the second season premiere. The Colonies have a fairly high level of
technology--they'd have to have, to have lightspeed-capable space vessels
and interplanetary trade between twelve worlds--but they've also learned
that technology and hubris don't mix: they created the Cylons, and look
where THAT got them. After the first Cylon War, they started scaling back
their technology, realising they had advanced as far as necessary, and
advancing any farther would be pushing their luck. In this way, they are
superior as a civilisation: they DO have the sense to know when Enough Is
Enough.

Now, aboard Galactica, there are no computer networks, and communication is
done via "landline"-style comm sets. The reason for this is explained early
on: in the Cylon War, the Cylons demonstrated rather handily that computer
networks are 100% vulnerable, and that includes communications networks.
Adama refuses to have any networked systems aboard his ship, and a standing
order aboard Galactica (broken in episode 2x01 out of necessity) is that NO
computer systems shall be networked aboard the ship, because networked
computers are practically an open invitation to the Cylons.

Hell, it's exploiting a computer network that let the Cylons eradicate the
Twelve Colonies in the first place.

[Justin]

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker

Post by Jack Bohn
The Galactica Manifesto seems to be trying to eliminate the
accepted conventions of TV SciFi, but to me it often seems to be
replacing them with chauvinism based on our culture (No one would
wear robes in a formal setting! It's suit and tie!) and time
(Space warps and robots, OK, but no other technology will really
advance past the late 20th century.)

I'm of the opinion that in "teh FYUCHURE!", clothing will not be radically
different from what we wear now. If you think about it, the types of
clothing we wear now are not radically dissimilar from what was worn a
hundred years ago--style issues notwithstanding, the basic equations still
hold--and I really don't see much room for improvement in terms of overall
design, comfort, and function in regards to clothing. Style issues
notwithstanding, a pair of jeans is a pair of jeans, a suit and tie is a
suit and tie, and a Hawaiian shirt and Bermuda shorts is tacky no matter how
hard you try to sell it. Now, construction and materials? Yeah, I see room
for improvement there, but really, there's no need for clothing to "evolve"
further than current 21st century standards. We're about as well dressed as
a sentient race is going to get.

I can see a few areas in current clothing that needs improvment. Less
restrictive, more stain resistance, less sweat producing polyster, rip
and tear resistence. Thinner warm clothes, cooler heavy clothes, suits
and the like in 80+ degree weather is awful.
The look doesn't need to change for any of these, of course.

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
The reasons for the apparent "low-tech" environment aboard Galactica are
rather well-documented in the pilot miniseries, and touched upon again in
the second season premiere. The Colonies have a fairly high level of
technology--they'd have to have, to have lightspeed-capable space vessels
and interplanetary trade between twelve worlds--but they've also learned
that technology and hubris don't mix: they created the Cylons, and look
where THAT got them. After the first Cylon War, they started scaling back
their technology, realising they had advanced as far as necessary, and
advancing any farther would be pushing their luck. In this way, they are
superior as a civilisation: they DO have the sense to know when Enough Is
Enough.

The Galactica was an anomoly when it came to technology, of course.
Otherwise there may be more battlestars around today...

[The Eternal Lost Lurker]

Post by Justin
The Galactica was an anomoly when it came to technology, of course.
Otherwise there may be more battlestars around today...

All the newer Battlestars were either incomplete at the time of the attack,
or destroyed in the invasion.

Of course, there's a rumor that we WILL see that OTHER Battlestar in season
two...

[Farix]

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker

Post by Justin
The Galactica was an anomoly when it came to technology, of course.
Otherwise there may be more battlestars around today...

All the newer Battlestars were either incomplete at the time of the attack,
or destroyed in the invasion.

I thought they were destroyed by sabotage/hacking via Dr. Baltar
integrated systems. Galactica lucked out because it was being turned
into a museum and didn't receive the upgrades.

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
Of course, there's a rumor that we WILL see that OTHER Battlestar in season
two...

I wonder if it will keep the name Pegasus or have a different name.

Farix

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[Justin]

Post by Farix

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker

Post by Justin
The Galactica was an anomoly when it came to technology, of course.
Otherwise there may be more battlestars around today...

All the newer Battlestars were either incomplete at the time of the attack,
or destroyed in the invasion.

I thought they were destroyed by sabotage/hacking via Dr. Baltar
integrated systems. Galactica lucked out because it was being turned
into a museum and didn't receive the upgrades.

No, it was because they were networked, and had the Baltar software that
had not been installed in Galactica because Adama wouldn't allow it.

Post by Farix

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
Of course, there's a rumor that we WILL see that OTHER Battlestar in season
two...

I wonder if it will keep the name Pegasus or have a different name.

Yep.

[Shawn Merrow]

Post by Farix

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker

Post by Justin
The Galactica was an anomoly when it came to technology, of course.
Otherwise there may be more battlestars around today...

All the newer Battlestars were either incomplete at the time of the attack,
or destroyed in the invasion.

I thought they were destroyed by sabotage/hacking via Dr. Baltar
integrated systems. Galactica lucked out because it was being turned
into a museum and didn't receive the upgrades.

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
Of course, there's a rumor that we WILL see that OTHER Battlestar in season
two...

I wonder if it will keep the name Pegasus or have a different name.
Farix

Acording to the Sci-Fi channel it will be the Pegasus.

Minor Spoilers about future episodes.
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?category=0&id=31702


Shawn Merrow

[Invid Fan]

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker

Post by Justin
The Galactica was an anomoly when it came to technology, of course.
Otherwise there may be more battlestars around today...

All the newer Battlestars were either incomplete at the time of the attack,
or destroyed in the invasion.

That's what he was talking about: the Galactica is low tech compared to
the other Battlestars, which is why it survived.

[Justin]

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker

Post by Justin
The Galactica was an anomoly when it came to technology, of course.
Otherwise there may be more battlestars around today...

All the newer Battlestars were either incomplete at the time of the attack,
or destroyed in the invasion.

Right, and they had networked computers, auto landers, etc. etc.

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
Of course, there's a rumor that we WILL see that OTHER Battlestar in season
two...

That seems to be more than rumour now

[Jack Bohn]

I don't want to get on an off-topi... ah, who'm I kidding

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
Actually, everything about Galactica as presented makes sense, often in ways
the original didn't.

Yes, the new one is less corny to this 41 year old than the
original was to this 14 year old.

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
First, you mention the costumes. I prefer the modern Galactica's costumes to
the original. Especially the uniforms of the Galactica crew; in the old
series, the outfit Adama wore was nothing short of ridiculous,

"Ridiculous"? Unflattering, yes, but on Lorne Greene's body what
wouldn't be? But I don't find them less practical, military, or
uniform than the current ones.

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
As to the clothing of everyone else...
I'm of the opinion that in "teh FYUCHURE!", clothing will not be radically
different from what we wear now. If you think about it, the types of
clothing we wear now are not radically dissimilar from what was worn a
hundred years ago--style issues notwithstanding,

What WE wear now is part of my problem with it. There are Arabs
who find their traditional desert wear more practical than a
t-shirt, jeans, and a ball cap. The Saudi royal family wear it
over a shirt and pants, but still in lieu of a suit and tie.
Hindus still wear the sari. The Japanese wear... does anybody
know what the Japanese wear?
I've heard the producers refer to the "trappings" of sci-fi as a
"distraction," and I can agree to an extent: I'm glad we use
"seconds" now instead of "centons," and if we ever get meat on
the hoof it will probably be "pigs" instead of "ovines," and I'm
sure it saves needed money in their budget to shop from Sears,
but seeing people who look like they wandered over from the
courtroom drama or office comedy on the next channel does throw
me out of the show.

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
As far as other technology is concerned...
The reasons for the apparent "low-tech" environment aboard Galactica are
rather well-documented in the pilot miniseries, and touched upon again in
the second season premiere. The Colonies have a fairly high level of
technology--they'd have to have, to have lightspeed-capable space vessels
and interplanetary trade between twelve worlds--but they've also learned
that technology and hubris don't mix: they created the Cylons, and look
where THAT got them. After the first Cylon War, they started scaling back
their technology, realising they had advanced as far as necessary, and
advancing any farther would be pushing their luck. In this way, they are
superior as a civilisation: they DO have the sense to know when Enough Is
Enough.

Wait, I missed this... the Colonies are scaling back their
technology? (They evidently DON'T know when Enough Is Enough if
they were wanting to network computers merely to make running a
museum easier.) So they are re-introducing larger, less
efficient toasters and other cooking equipment, larger radios,
and lead acid storage batteries? The internal combustion engine?

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
Adama refuses to have any networked systems aboard his ship, and a standing
order aboard Galactica (broken in episode 2x01 out of necessity) is that NO
computer systems shall be networked aboard the ship, because networked
computers are practically an open invitation to the Cylons.

Hey, has he ordered de-working of the other ships in his rag-tag,
fugitive fleet?

[The Eternal Lost Lurker]

Post by Jack Bohn
What WE wear now is part of my problem with it. There are Arabs
who find their traditional desert wear more practical than a
t-shirt, jeans, and a ball cap. The Saudi royal family wear it
over a shirt and pants, but still in lieu of a suit and tie.
Hindus still wear the sari. The Japanese wear... does anybody
know what the Japanese wear?

Whatever they want. :P Tasteful suits are the norm in public
relations--traditional garb is for, well, traditional things--things which
gaijin are not supposed to be knowledgeable of. Fewer Japanese wear
traditional Japanese attire than ever before--many modern Japanese teenagers
will only have worn a kimono to festival, or a yukata at a hot springs
resort.

Post by Jack Bohn
I've heard the producers refer to the "trappings" of sci-fi as a
"distraction," and I can agree to an extent: I'm glad we use
"seconds" now instead of "centons," and if we ever get meat on
the hoof it will probably be "pigs" instead of "ovines," and I'm
sure it saves needed money in their budget to shop from Sears,
but seeing people who look like they wandered over from the
courtroom drama or office comedy on the next channel does throw
me out of the show.

I don't see why it should. There's no real reason for their civilian apparel
to be much different from our own, as I've mentioned--even in Star Trek: The
Next Generation and its spinoffs, when we see Starfleet personnel off-duty,
the clothes they wear really aren't "futuristic"--maybe a bit more
simple/comfortable-looking, maybe a bit more snappy, but certainly not
futuristic. Hell, Picard himself once traipsed about the deck of the ship in
duds you'd find a rider wearing at any stable.

Post by Jack Bohn
Wait, I missed this... the Colonies are scaling back their
technology? (They evidently DON'T know when Enough Is Enough if
they were wanting to network computers merely to make running a
museum easier.) So they are re-introducing larger, less
efficient toasters and other cooking equipment, larger radios,
and lead acid storage batteries? The internal combustion engine?

No, no...not so much that, it's just that they hit a point at which they
elected to cease further technological progress. After the Cylon incident,
they realised that they really didn't need anything more advanced than what
they already had.

This isn't to say they abandoned computer networks--and computer networks DO
make things easier--but Adama refused to allow networking of any computers
aboard Galactica while it was still his ship.

Damn good thing, too.

Basically, it's the difference between saying "We want to make our machines
smarter, better, and more self-sufficient", and saying "Okay, we're good
with what we have, let's just stop right there."

Post by Jack Bohn

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
Adama refuses to have any networked systems aboard his ship, and a standing
order aboard Galactica (broken in episode 2x01 out of necessity) is that NO
computer systems shall be networked aboard the ship, because networked
computers are practically an open invitation to the Cylons.

Hey, has he ordered de-working of the other ships in his rag-tag,
fugitive fleet?

Probably--assuming any of them HAD networked systems to begin with.

[Jack Bohn]

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
There's no real reason for their civilian apparel
to be much different from our own, as I've mentioned--even in Star Trek: The
Next Generation and its spinoffs, when we see Starfleet personnel off-duty,
the clothes they wear really aren't "futuristic"--maybe a bit more
simple/comfortable-looking, maybe a bit more snappy, but certainly not
futuristic.

Yeah, the "jumpsuits and duct tape" outfits fade into the
background (at least compared to the technicolor Starfleet
uniforms). 2001's civilian outfits do as well. That's what I'd
prefer, not something outstandingly "futuristic," just not
exactly what we have today.

[Ethan Hammond]

Post by Jack Bohn
The Japanese wear... does anybody
know what the Japanese wear?

I know when they wear nothing, yes I do!

[Ethan Hammond]

Post by Jack Bohn

Post by l***@my-deja.com
My point wasn't that of any connection between these shows and anime.
My point is that anime space shows do exactly the kind of thing the
Galactica producer describes as a "new approach." 25 years ago, Gundam
was ALREADY doing what Galactica's producer is announcing as "new." I
just want to see the anime shows get some respect for this.

It struck me at work yesterday that what Gundam did is what
Marvel Comics did in the early '60s. Accepting the conventions
of the genre (the physics-defying power) they put real people
with real problems in their situations, people who did not always
handle the situations well.

Shazam you are right! Although Batman didn't always handle
it well. The TV show kind of changed how Batman was in the
comics until Frank Miller came along and fixed him.

[s***@yahoo.com]

Post by l***@my-deja.com

Post by Travers Naran
There's no anime connection at all.

My point wasn't that of any connection between these shows and anime.
My point is that anime space shows do exactly the kind of thing the
Galactica producer describes as a "new approach." 25 years ago, Gundam
was ALREADY doing what Galactica's producer is announcing as "new." I
just want to see the anime shows get some respect for this.

"Space Opera" is an american invention, and the British show "Blake's
7" was doing anti- Star Trek, without time warp or space bubbles, back
in 1977. Your demand for Gundam respect is pointless, and I doubt many
people can get past the sill toy factor of the giant robots. I havn't
seen much of the original Gundam, but I'm not prepared to take your
word that it was all that good or sophisticated, either.

Gundam isn't the sort of things the Battlestar Gallactica people are
talking about, anyway. Gundam's giant robots are just as silly as
"stock characters, techno-double-talk, bumpy-headed aliens, thespian
histrionics and empty heroics time travel or parallel universes or cute
robot dogs" There's nothing "naturalistic" about giant robot anime.

And Space Battleship Yamato is filled with "stock characters, thespian
histrionics and empty heroics" The whole point of Martian Successor
Nadesico was to play off the whole "defeat the evil empire"
nationalistic cheeze of Space Battleship Yamato. The Jovians are
partially based off the heroes in the Yamato series, and the stock
heroic grandfatherly admiral who crashes his ship into the Mars colony
in the beginning of Nadesico plays off the first scene of Yamato.

Get off your fanboy high horse.

[Antonio E. Gonzalez]

Post by s***@yahoo.com

Post by l***@my-deja.com

Post by Travers Naran
There's no anime connection at all.

My point wasn't that of any connection between these shows and anime.
My point is that anime space shows do exactly the kind of thing the
Galactica producer describes as a "new approach." 25 years ago, Gundam
was ALREADY doing what Galactica's producer is announcing as "new." I
just want to see the anime shows get some respect for this.

"Space Opera" is an american invention, and the British show "Blake's
7" was doing anti- Star Trek, without time warp or space bubbles, back
in 1977. Your demand for Gundam respect is pointless, and I doubt many
people can get past the sill toy factor of the giant robots. I havn't
seen much of the original Gundam, but I'm not prepared to take your
word that it was all that good or sophisticated, either.
Gundam isn't the sort of things the Battlestar Gallactica people are
talking about, anyway. Gundam's giant robots are just as silly as
"stock characters, techno-double-talk, bumpy-headed aliens, thespian
histrionics and empty heroics time travel or parallel universes or cute
robot dogs" There's nothing "naturalistic" about giant robot anime.
And Space Battleship Yamato is filled with "stock characters, thespian
histrionics and empty heroics" The whole point of Martian Successor
Nadesico was to play off the whole "defeat the evil empire"
nationalistic cheeze of Space Battleship Yamato. The Jovians are
partially based off the heroes in the Yamato series, and the stock
heroic grandfatherly admiral who crashes his ship into the Mars colony
in the beginning of Nadesico plays off the first scene of Yamato.
Get off your fanboy high horse.

Well, *someone* is on a "fanboy high horse" . . .



- Vaughner

- "Let's beat the terrorists with our most powerful weapon . . . hot
girl-on-girl action!"

[Lord Craxton]

Post by Antonio E. Gonzalez

Post by s***@yahoo.com

Post by l***@my-deja.com

Post by Travers Naran
There's no anime connection at all.

My point wasn't that of any connection between these shows and anime.
My point is that anime space shows do exactly the kind of thing the
Galactica producer describes as a "new approach." 25 years ago, Gundam
was ALREADY doing what Galactica's producer is announcing as "new." I
just want to see the anime shows get some respect for this.

"Space Opera" is an american invention, and the British show "Blake's
7" was doing anti- Star Trek, without time warp or space bubbles, back
in 1977. Your demand for Gundam respect is pointless, and I doubt many
people can get past the sill toy factor of the giant robots. I havn't
seen much of the original Gundam, but I'm not prepared to take your
word that it was all that good or sophisticated, either.
Gundam isn't the sort of things the Battlestar Gallactica people are
talking about, anyway. Gundam's giant robots are just as silly as
"stock characters, techno-double-talk, bumpy-headed aliens, thespian
histrionics and empty heroics time travel or parallel universes or cute
robot dogs" There's nothing "naturalistic" about giant robot anime.
And Space Battleship Yamato is filled with "stock characters, thespian
histrionics and empty heroics" The whole point of Martian Successor
Nadesico was to play off the whole "defeat the evil empire"
nationalistic cheeze of Space Battleship Yamato. The Jovians are
partially based off the heroes in the Yamato series, and the stock
heroic grandfatherly admiral who crashes his ship into the Mars colony
in the beginning of Nadesico plays off the first scene of Yamato.
Get off your fanboy high horse.

Well, *someone* is on a "fanboy high horse" . . .

This one I *DO* have the link for:

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=142

-Lord Craxton

[The Eternal Lost Lurker]

<***@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:***@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

*snip*

Post by l***@my-deja.com
Okay, folks, is it just me or does his "new approach" sound exactly
like what they've been doing in anime space opera all these years?
I'm thinking, of course, of "Mobile Suit Gundam" and its various
spin-offs, not to mention "Space Battleship Yamato" and "Macross" and
any of a dozen other prominent anime space shows/OAVs.

I wouldn't say it's dissimilar, exactly, but I wouldn't go so far as to say
it's "exactly like" anything, either.

Post by l***@my-deja.com
I haven't seen any eps. of the new "Galactica" yet, so I can't
compare it to anime.

Then you really shouldn't start a thread like this when you're unqualified
to do so, should you?

Post by l***@my-deja.com
But it irks me when the great work Japanese
animators have been doing in this genre for over 30 years continues to
be ignored by those who worship at the decaying shrines of "Star Trek,"
"Star Wars," and "Galactica."

Um...maybe you're confusing "American science-fiction fans" with "anime
fans"? It IS possible to be one and not the other, you know, and it IS
possible to be a sci-fi fan without ever having HEARD of Gundam or Yamato.

Now, as someone who HAS ACTUALLY *SEEN* every episode of the new Battlestar
Galactica, here's MY take...or rather, a little information on what the new
Galactica actually *IS*:

Galactica is a survival drama.

The basic premise of the original series is used for the new series, but
that and a few recycled names/concepts are pretty much the limit of
comparison.

The original Galactica turned into a stock 70s space opera from the word go.
It completely wasted the potential of its excellent premise.

The new Galactica takes the premise and runs with it.

A peaceful, advanced civilisation spread out across twelve planets (the
Twelve Colonies of Man) is, in one fell swoop, WIPED OUT by an invasion from
highly advanced cybernetic beings called the Cylons. The deadly technology
and calculated accuracy with which the Cylons attack makes it virtually
impossible to fight back, and within hours, the entire human civilisation is
destroyed...

...except for a fleet of approximately 220 ships, mostly civilian,
containing just under 48,000 people, led by a single military
battleship--the Battlestar Galactica.

Now, that's the premise of BOTH series.

Where the new one deviates is that it's written and filmed with 9/11 firmly
in mind. The filming technique and general direction, writing, and pacing
remind one of the frantic, shock-riddled, terrified hours and days that
followed the destruction of the WTC, only on a vastly larger scale. Here,
you have 50,000 people who BARELY got away with their lives when their
ENTIRE WORLD was destroyed beneath them, and even now continue to be on the
run from the enemy which insists on pursuing them until the bitter end. The
Colonial Fleet has only one servicable military vessel to guard against the
virtually infinite offensive capabilities of the Cylons...and if that's not
bad enough, the Cylons also have sleeper agents, human in appearance, but
Cylon underneath, programmed to activate and execute specific orders
*without even realising they aren't human*, scattered all over the
fleet--including aboard Galactica. And the only thing, the only hope,
keeping the survivors of the human race from giving in and submitting to the
inevitable is a vague promise that the commander of Galactica, Adama, knows
the location of the fabled Thirteenth Colony, Earth.

(He doesn't.)

Galactica is a story of survival, of exasperation, and of humanity being
pushed to the breaking point under the most adverse conditions imaginable:
total extinction.

The series is filmed in such a way that it's a series of one disaster after
another, interspersed with the occasional minor victory. Just enough goes in
their favor to give the Colonials hope to sustain them, but not nearly
enough goes in their favor to give them confidence of surviving the
inevitable--of eluding the Cylons and finding a new home to live in peace
and rebuild their civilisation.

[IsaacKuo]

Oh, I had forgotten. There is ONE part of BSG which was changed
as a nod to 9/11. Originally, Apollo was to have seen passengers
in the windows of the Olympic Carrier (before he had to shoot her
down). This was changed to be more ambiguous. The scripts were
otherwise unchanged, though, in case you were wondering why Apollo
and Roslyn were so distraught over the event.

Isaac Kuo

[IsaacKuo]

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker

Post by l***@my-deja.com
Okay, folks, is it just me or does his "new approach" sound
exactly like what they've been doing in anime space opera
all these years? I'm thinking, of course, of "Mobile Suit
Gundam" and its various spin-offs, not to mention "Space
Battleship Yamato" and "Macross" and any of a dozen other
prominent anime space shows/OAVs.

I wouldn't say it's dissimilar, exactly, but I wouldn't
go so far as to say it's "exactly like" anything, either.

I'd say it is dissimilar. The new BSG is distinctly
Hollywood flavored, through and through.

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker

Post by l***@my-deja.com
I haven't seen any eps. of the new "Galactica" yet, so I can't
compare it to anime.

Then you really shouldn't start a thread like this when
you're unqualified to do so, should you?

No kidding!

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
Now, as someone who HAS ACTUALLY *SEEN* every episode
of the new Battlestar Galactica, here's MY take...or
rather, a little information on what the new
Galactica is a survival drama.

[...]

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
A peaceful, advanced civilisation spread out across
twelve planets (the Twelve Colonies of Man) is, in
one fell swoop, WIPED OUT by an invasion from
highly advanced cybernetic beings called the Cylons.

[...]

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
...except for a fleet of approximately 220 ships,
mostly civilian, containing just under 48,000 people,
led by a single military battleship--the Battlestar
Galactica.

This premise is actually very similar to the premise
of Macross. The big difference is in the follow-through.
Like almost all Japanese SF, Macross echos themes from
the Japanese experience of WWII. The U.S. has never
suffered such a total defeat (in living memory), so
BSG is more of a speculative fantasy.

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
Now, that's the premise of BOTH series.
Where the new one deviates is that it's written and
filmed with 9/11 firmly in mind. The filming technique
and general direction, writing, and pacing remind one
of the frantic, shock-riddled, terrified hours and
days that followed the destruction of the WTC, only
on a vastly larger scale.

An interesting theory, but off the mark, I think.
Moore has stated that his main inspirations were
Blackhawk Down and Saving Private Ryan. He loved
the gritty visceral look and feel of those movies
and sought to duplicate it in BSG. For the most
part, he was wildly successful, although the use
of shakey-cam is outrageously overdone.

I'd go so far as to say that the new BSG is firmly
planted in a mid '90s perspective. The main
characters are essentially all Liberal Democrats,
far more so than in the original BSG. The original
BSG, for all of its space opera cheese, was also
very political. It consistently derided the foolish
peacenik leftist civilian leadership, while the
God-like right-wing military commander Adama always
knew best. Given the politics of the time, the
unspoken message was clear--Vietnam was lost because
the wrong-headed peaceniks got in the way of the
military, and those same weaklings are the ones who
will get us done in by the Soviets if we let them.

In the new BSG, Adama's character was completely
remolded thanks to the star of the show--Edward
James Olmos. The new Adama is more "enlightened",
conscious of the reasons for civilian control of
the military and wary of the dangers of military
leadership. At the same time, the civilian
leadership is also Liberal, seemingly inspired by
The West Wing more than anything else. There is
thus no basic ideological conflict between Adama
and Roslyn. Instead, they differ on more practical
matters of what their next move should be.

That's not to say there isn't politics in the new
BSG, but the players have a 1990's feel to them.
One the one hand is the "establishment"--moderates
similar to the Clinton "New Democrats". On the other
hand are the "radicals"--extremists similar to the
anti-globalism fringe left. (They're the ones deriding
both of the main political parties as "Republicrats"
beholden to Corporate America.) It reminds me of
pre-2000 Jon Stewart, who at the time thought the
old "Liberal" vs "Conservative" fued was essentially
outdated and dying, replaced with "Moderates" vs
"Radicals". That was before "uniter not a divider"
Dubya got into the White House, of course.

Even the terrorism in BSG has a 1990's feel. Richard
Hatch's character is the show's only actual terrorist,
and he's definitely a Tim McVeigh type rather than an
Osama Bin Laden type. He bombed a government building,
and did so as a political protest against the corrupt
government--not out of any religious fervor. None of
the humans have any serious religious convictions (not
at first, at least).

Basically, I think the new BSG could have been made
years ago and it could have been more or less the same.

Isaac Kuo

[David Johnston]

Post by IsaacKuo
Even the terrorism in BSG has a 1990's feel. Richard
Hatch's character is the show's only actual terrorist,
and he's definitely a Tim McVeigh type rather than an
Osama Bin Laden type. He bombed a government building,
and did so as a political protest against the corrupt
government--not out of any religious fervor. None of
the humans have any serious religious convictions (not
at first, at least).

However, the cylons themselves are religious fanatics and have used at
least one suicide bomber. I don't think that can be ignored when
considering the political dimensions of the show.

[Invid Fan]

Post by IsaacKuo
This premise is actually very similar to the premise
of Macross. The big difference is in the follow-through.
Like almost all Japanese SF, Macross echos themes from
the Japanese experience of WWII. The U.S. has never
suffered such a total defeat (in living memory), so
BSG is more of a speculative fantasy.

Actually, it's only similar to Macross is that you have the military
forced to protect civilians while at war. After all, in Macross they
were headed towards an Earth that was being left alone by the aliens.
(and let us note the original Battlestar Galactica aired before Macross)

Post by IsaacKuo

Post by The Eternal Lost Lurker
Now, that's the premise of BOTH series.
Where the new one deviates is that it's written and
filmed with 9/11 firmly in mind. The filming technique
and general direction, writing, and pacing remind one
of the frantic, shock-riddled, terrified hours and
days that followed the destruction of the WTC, only
on a vastly larger scale.

An interesting theory, but off the mark, I think.

Pre-mini series info from the creators mentioned the 9/11 connection,
one reason my muslim friend refused to watch. She's since caught a
couple episodes, but at the time was just tired of everything being
related to that terrorist attack.

[Bill Martin]

Post by l***@my-deja.com
There was an article about the new Sci-Fi Channel version of
"Battlestar Galactica" in the Sunday New York Times Magazine of July
17, 2005, with the emphasis on the contributions of producer Ronald D.
[Start Quote] After numerous meetings and a full script treatment,
[Moore] wrote a two-page memo that laid out the basic tenets of what
the new "Battlestar Galactica" would eventually become. "We take as a
given the idea that the traditional space opera, with its stock
characters, techno-double-talk,

Oh yes, since the new BSG has no new techno-double-talk... draedus...

Post by l***@my-deja.com
bumpy-headed aliens, thespian
histrionics and empty heroics has run its course, and a new approach is
required," it began. "Call it 'naturalistic science fiction.'" There
would be no time travel or parallel universes or cute robot dogs.

What do they have against Dr. Who?

Post by l***@my-deja.com
There would not be "photon torpedoes" but instead nuclear missiles,
because nukes are real and thus are frightening. [End Quote]

Wait... those "nukes" on the set are real nukes?


...


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH (catches breath)
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGGGGGGGGH!!!

Post by l***@my-deja.com
Okay, folks, is it just me or does his "new approach" sound exactly
like what they've been doing in anime space opera all these years?
I'm thinking, of course, of "Mobile Suit Gundam" and its various
spin-offs, not to mention "Space Battleship Yamato" and "Macross" and
any of a dozen other prominent anime space shows/OAVs.

Well, technically, Gundam wouldn't be considered, since it had stock
characters and a special alloy discovered that allowed for the creation
of the Gundams. Macross was the retrofitting of a crashed alien space
ship

Post by l***@my-deja.com
I haven't seen any eps. of the new "Galactica" yet, so I can't
compare it to anime. But it irks me when the great work Japanese
animators have been doing in this genre for over 30 years continues to
be ignored by those who worship at the decaying shrines of "Star Trek,"
"Star Wars," and "Galactica."

HEY, now that was a cheap shot.

[The Eternal Lost Lurker]

Post by Bill Martin

Post by l***@my-deja.com
[Start Quote] After numerous meetings and a full script treatment,
[Moore] wrote a two-page memo that laid out the basic tenets of what
the new "Battlestar Galactica" would eventually become. "We take as a
given the idea that the traditional space opera, with its stock
characters, techno-double-talk,

Oh yes, since the new BSG has no new techno-double-talk... draedus...

Actually, BSG is rather light on the technobabble, compared to other series.
It's heavier on military parlance than technobabble.

(Granted, it may just be that after some twenty years of Star Trek fandom,
I've long since become acclimated to it to the point where I don't even
notice it anymore...)

Post by Bill Martin

Post by l***@my-deja.com
I haven't seen any eps. of the new "Galactica" yet, so I can't
compare it to anime. But it irks me when the great work Japanese
animators have been doing in this genre for over 30 years continues to
be ignored by those who worship at the decaying shrines of "Star Trek,"
"Star Wars," and "Galactica."

HEY, now that was a cheap shot.

Yeah, especially since Star Wars fandom is at its highest point EVER, and
the new Galactica is creating an entire new legion of fans...

[Invid Fan]

Post by Bill Martin

Post by l***@my-deja.com
bumpy-headed aliens, thespian
histrionics and empty heroics has run its course, and a new approach is
required," it began. "Call it 'naturalistic science fiction.'" There
would be no time travel or parallel universes or cute robot dogs.

What do they have against Dr. Who?

I hope the rumor of K-9 and Sarah Jane showing up on the next season of
Dr. Who turns out to be true :)

[Mike Swaim]

Post by Bill Martin

There would be no time travel or parallel universes or
cute robot dogs.

What do they have against Dr. Who?

I think that it's more a dig on the Daggit or whatever it was called
in the original series.

Mike

[David Johnston]

Post by l***@my-deja.com
There was an article about the new Sci-Fi Channel version of
"Battlestar Galactica" in the Sunday New York Times Magazine of July
17, 2005, with the emphasis on the contributions of producer Ronald D.
[Start Quote] After numerous meetings and a full script treatment,
[Moore] wrote a two-page memo that laid out the basic tenets of what
the new "Battlestar Galactica" would eventually become. "We take as a
given the idea that the traditional space opera, with its stock
characters, techno-double-talk, bumpy-headed aliens, thespian
histrionics and empty heroics has run its course, and a new approach is
required," it began. "Call it 'naturalistic science fiction.'" There
would be no time travel or parallel universes or cute robot dogs. There
would not be "photon torpedoes" but instead nuclear missiles, because
nukes are real and thus are frightening. [End Quote]
Okay, folks, is it just me or does his "new approach" sound exactly
like what they've been doing in anime space opera all these years?

No. His new approach also didn't have teenagers doing martial arts
moves in giant robots with laser swords.